Episode 66 – From Boy to Man: Why Men Aren’t Stepping Up & How to Build Safe, Balanced Relationships with Alessandro Frosali
What happens when a wife tells her husband "be more of a man, or I'm leaving"? For men's coach Alessandro Frosali, it sparked a two-year journey that transformed not only his marriage but his life's purpose. The result? A deeper understanding of what healthy masculinity actually looks like & how it creates thriving partnerships.
This conversation explores the journey from "boy" behaviors to integrated manhood, the life ship concept that revolutionizes how couples approach shared responsibility, & practical tools for navigating conflict with your partner as teammates rather than opponents.
Topics covered
In this episode, we discussed
- Alessandro's personal journey to becoming a men's coach
- Why men aren't stepping up - pendulum swing from toxic to passive masculinity
- The difference between "spine" versus "heart" in men
- Cultural role models shifting from the Marlboro Man to Homer Simpson
- Creating safe spaces for men to share vulnerably
- Speaking truth without negative consequences
- The Boy to Man model - five key differences
- Men operating from boy patterns without rites of passage
- Life ship concept: mental load and shared responsibility
- Women's superior forethought abilities as natural alert systems
- The "rug" metaphor: sweeping problems under the rug
- Women's anger as signals that something needs attention
- Seeing through your partner's tone to understand care
- Discussing conflict styles proactively
- Shortening the gap between conflict and reconciliation
About Alessandro Frosali
Alessandro Frosali is a men’s coach, speaker, and retreat leader helping men break free from passive patterns and step into mature masculine leadership, especially in their relationships. Through rites of passage, coaching, and real conversation, he guides men from boy-like behaviour into grounded presence, emotional strength, and purpose-driven action.
Connect with Alessandro
Listen to the Episode
Timestamps
[00:01:04] Alessandro introduces himself as men's coach
[00:02:06] Personal story - wife's ultimatum about being more of a man
[00:04:08] Why men aren't stepping up - pendulum swing from spine to heart
[00:05:15] Cultural role models from Marlboro Man to Homer Simpson
[00:06:27] How men experience being told they're not stepping up
[00:08:13] Creating safe spaces - learning from his wife
[00:08:35] The transformative moment in Hamburg apartment
[00:10:43] Why showing vulnerability once can change everything
[00:13:06] Creating judgment-free spaces in relationships
[00:15:03] The Boy to Man model introduction
[00:16:01] Five boy behaviors vs man behaviors
[00:20:01] Rites of passage and men who "slipped through the cracks"
[00:22:24] The life ship concept introduction
[00:23:28] One ship, not two separate ships
[00:24:15] Mental load explained through rowing metaphor
[00:26:19] Both partners responsible for 50% of life ship
[00:29:09] You versus me thinking and feeling hard done by
[00:30:04] The rug metaphor - sweeping problems away
[00:32:47] Women as alert signals for relationship issues
[00:33:23] Research on women's superior forethought abilities
[00:35:27] Seeing through your partner's tone
[00:36:55] Personal example with anger and family dynamics
[00:38:25] Imagining wife as "angry fuzzball" to soften response
[00:40:31] Distinguishing your issues from your partner's issues
[00:42:08] Allowing partner to self-regulate without interference
[00:44:36] Proactive conversations about fight styles
[00:46:04] Setting boundaries before fights go too far
[00:47:20] Shortening gap between fight and reconciliation
[00:48:16] Where to find Alessandro's work
The Boy to Man Model: Five Essential Shifts
The difference between boy behaviors & healthy masculine behaviors isn't about age:it's about consciousness. Based on Dr. Anya Rubenstein's work from the Rites of Passage Institute, this model reveals the specific transformations men need to make.
Boy Behaviors (Fine for Children, Problematic for Adults)
- Wants power to be the center of attention ("Look at me!")
- Avoids responsibility (Always someone else's fault)
- Ruled by emotions (On the rollercoaster, not sitting with feelings)
- Can never be wrong (Defensiveness blocks growth)
- Always wants a mother (Seeking someone to manage life for them)
Healthy Man Behaviors
- Uses power to serve the community (Leadership that lifts others)
- Takes full responsibility for actions (Ownership without blame)
- Stands with emotions (Feels fully while staying grounded)
- Admits when wrong (Vulnerability enables repair)
- Seeks healthy relationship with the feminine (Partnership, not caretaking)
"These are archetypes. We walk towards them rather than something we have to be. It's a path or journey to get to."
The Life Ship: One Relationship, Shared Responsibility
Most couples live like they have two separate ships when they actually share one. This fundamental misunderstanding creates resentment, overwhelm, & disconnection.
The Traditional Dynamic (That Doesn't Work)
- Man rows downstairs (focused only on work/income)
- Comes up exhausted ("I'm done, I rowed the boat!")
- Woman steering, fixing railings, holding kids while the boat heads toward a storm
- She asks for help with everything falling apart above deck
- He resents being asked because he already "did his part"
The Life Ship Approach
You both own 50% of this ship. Neither person is responsible for how the other feels, but both are responsible for their portion of the shared life you're building together.
"The moment men realize they have agency within this life and they actually can choose part of where the ship is going... they go, 'Oh, actually, that's pretty cool. It's not her just running the show.'"
The Rug Metaphor: What Gets Swept Away
Everything you avoid addressing becomes an obstacle your partner has to navigate around. Alessandro uses this powerful metaphor to help men see how avoidance creates relationship friction.
How the Rug Works
- Health issues your partner mentions repeatedly (dust → shoes → couch → fridge under the rug)
- Life admin you keep postponing (taxes, passport applications, important calls)
- Financial responsibilities left unaddressed
- Date nights & connection that never happen
"If your wife were to enter this room, can she get to the other side? No. And interestingly enough, her more than anyone, she knows when you haven't done things."
The solution isn't perfection:it's pulling things out from under the rug before they become relationship-threatening obstacles.
Women's Forethought: Your Relationship Superpower
Research shows women have 14% better forethought than men. Instead of seeing your partner's early warnings as nagging, recognize them as your relationship's early alert system.
Reframing Her "Complaints"
- She's not attacking you:the check engine light is on
- Her emotional response indicates the size of the issue
- Your job is to decipher what actually needs attention
- She might say it's the bins when it's really the upcoming tax deadline
"She's literally the alert signal. She'll tell you when something's wrong because she's better at that than us. Like that's full stop."
The Team Approach
- She identifies problems with superior forethought
- He deciphers & addresses using better daily emotional regulation
- Both work together on solutions
- Connection strengthens through collaborative problem-solving
Seeing Through Tone to Care
Half of Alessandro's work involves helping men see through their partner's tone to the love underneath. Learning this skill transforms relationship dynamics entirely.
The Angry Fuzzball Technique
When his wife gets angry, Alessandro visualizes her as "an angry Sesame Street fuzzball":a cute, cartoon character expressing big emotions. This softens his response & helps him remember: this is his beloved partner having feelings, not an enemy attacking him.
Understanding the Real Message
- Tone often reflects years of trying to communicate the same thing
- Emotion indicates importance, not irrationality
- Her anger comes from caring about you & the relationship
- Connection & understanding are what she actually wants
"If you want her to be a man, then [the emotions] are too unnecessary. But she's not a man... that's not the way through."
My Sh*t vs Their Sh*t: Healthy Boundaries in Conflict
Learning to distinguish between your issues & your partner's issues prevents you from taking everything personally while still being supportive.
The Process
- Ask yourself: Is this my responsibility or theirs?
- If it's yours: Own it completely & address it
- If it's theirs: Pause, don't take it personally, allow them to self-regulate
- Stay present without trying to fix or control their process
"The moment you find that repulsive, the moment you get in the way of them dealing with their own thing, then it becomes about you and your dynamics."
This isn't about becoming cold or distant: it's about loving your partner enough to let them have their full human experience without making it about you.
Key Takeaways
- Healthy masculinity has both spine & heart: not just one or the other
- Your relationship is a shared ship requiring both partners' conscious participation
- Avoided responsibilities become obstacles that your partner must navigate around
- Women's superior forethought serves as an early warning system for relationship issues
- Tone reflects accumulated frustration: look for the care underneath
- Distinguishing "my shit vs their shit" creates healthy boundaries during conflict
- Proactive conversations about fight styles prevent relationship damage
- Safe spaces for vulnerability must be created & maintained
- Team thinking replaces "you vs me" thinking in healthy partnerships
Transcript
[00:00:00] Iris Josephina: You are listening to the podcast of Iris Josephina. If you are passionate about exploring the menstrual cycle, cyclical living, body wisdom, personal growth, spirituality, and running a business in alignment with your natural cycles, you're in the right place. I'm Iris. I'm an entrepreneur, functional hormone specialist, trainer and coach, and I am on a mission.
[00:00:29] Iris Josephina: To share insights, fun facts, and inspiration I discover along the way as I run my business and walk my own path on earth. Here you'll hear my personal stories, guest interviews, and vulnerable shares from clients and students. Most people know me from Instagram where you can find me under @cycleseeds, or they have been a coaching client or student in one of my courses.
[00:00:52] Iris Josephina: I'm so grateful you're here. Let's dive into today's episode.
[00:00:56] Iris Josephina: Hey Alessandro, welcome to the show.
[00:01:02] Alessandro Frosali: Hi, Iris. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:04] Iris Josephina: It is so nice to meet you and the topics that we are going to discuss today are, I think, topics I've never covered anywhere, but I am meeting these topics in the closed walls of my private practice when I work with couples, when I work with women. So first of all, I'm just curious who you are, what you do, and how you landed in this field of work.
[00:01:31] Alessandro Frosali: All right, perfect. Well, I would probably best describe myself as a men's coach and a men's coach and facilitator. And what I do is specifically help men or help men that are in relationships most often in marriages, and I help them to. I got a line saying to become better husbands. But in the end, the ironic thing is I'm really just helping them find their own sense of self and getting them to, understand a little bit more dynamics within a relationship that can actually help them step up, so to speak, within that relationship.
[00:02:06] Alessandro Frosali: And we do that by helping them find out who they are inside, you know, like, and actually allowing that person that they've always wanted to be, to come out. so how I've gotten into this work, I kind of went through that journey myself. I had to go through that journey myself, and it was, a moment when my wife said to me, I need you to be more of a man, or I'm leaving.
[00:02:25] Alessandro Frosali: And that was one of the most heartbreaking and lonely moments I think I've ever had in my life. And it led me to a very. You know, up and down two years I would say, where I tried to find out exactly what a man was. I tried to, put that into practice for myself. And throughout that process, a whole bunch of different things happened, which allowed me to, to, understand what it was and then.
[00:02:54] Alessandro Frosali: I started a men's group and men started asking me can I help them with what I went through? And then, you know, everything sort of steam rolls into that. And I decided to leave everything that I had done before and, and pursue this path.
[00:03:06] Iris Josephina: you for sharing that and it must have been so hard to go through this yourself and, and you experienced you. You mentioned that you felt very lonely in that period, but I also feel because you went through it yourself, you can very much and very deeply relate to the men that come to you for
[00:03:25] Alessandro Frosali: Exactly, exactly. I actually think it's a, it's a driving purpose of mine. It's part of the reason why a lot of what I do also centers around making sure that men have safe spaces to speak and if they have never had safe spaces to speak. It is one of the most beautiful things to facilitate that and allow that to happen.
[00:03:45] Iris Josephina: Yeah, so I can imagine that the people listening may wonder like, oh, you're talking about men. Learning how to step up. Like why is it according to you that men aren't stepping up? what is happening there? Why, why do you think men are not stepping up or why are women experiencing this? as men not stepping up in the relationship?
[00:04:08] Alessandro Frosali: Well, I think we have, I think we have a very large amount of. I, I think there's been swings in trends and characteristics within men. And the first swing was a really bad swing, so to speak. And this is, you know, quite a, controlling toxic that the idea of what we had as a patriarchy, so to speak, you know, and, and this idea that a man, goes and works, woman stays at home, this kind of thing.
[00:04:33] Alessandro Frosali: This is really bad. And I think we've had such a counter movement towards that, like such a huge swing of the pendulum to the other side to go, you know what, that's, let's call that all spine. You know, that they had, they had all spine, but they had no heart. So then we've swung the pendulum all the way to all heart, but a lot of men have translated that into, I'll just do nothing.
[00:04:55] Alessandro Frosali: And then we look at our role models within society and our role models within society really changed as well. So we went from having these role models as the Marlborough man, you know, like the, the old spine. I'm gonna go and solve anything, but I'm gonna be an asshole to Homer Simpson and Doug from Doug and Carey, from the King of Queens.
[00:05:15] Alessandro Frosali: And, and we've got these men that are hopeless, passive, but they have heart and they feel, and it's lovely, but they just, they they have, they. They have no spine, and so I honestly believe. One, you know, the opposite of crazy, which was the, the, all that toughness, that, that is still crazy. The opposite of crazy is still crazy.
[00:05:37] Alessandro Frosali: And so we have to actually find a balanced way forward. We have to find a way where we can actually have a masculinity that is, has spine. And has heart. It doesn't have to be just one or the other. And I'm finding a lot of the men that I talk to are just, they're, they're seeping in heart and it's so much heart.
[00:05:54] Alessandro Frosali: And that was what I used to be. It was, you know, people used to say I was a very effeminate man. And, and I used to take that as a good thing because I didn't want to be, like a like a man because of all the bad things we've heard about men. And I think that is the biggest issue here is we've heard such bad things about men, but.
[00:06:14] Alessandro Frosali: We're so scared of toxic masculinity. We've stripped away all masculinity and I, I that's, that's throwing the baby out with the bath water. It's throwing away a little bit too much.
[00:06:27] Iris Josephina: And how. How is it just to like weave further onto this? Like do men experience themselves as not stepping up or are they like in the dark, like, oh, I'm not stepping up? Or are they told they're not stepping up? Like how do you experience that?
[00:06:43] Alessandro Frosali: mean, you know, wives tell them every single day, the wives will not lose an opportunity to tell them. And, and often the men I talk to, I mean, there's one of two things. If they're talking to me and they jump in a coaching call with me, they, they know it, but they just dunno how. don't know how to move forward.
[00:07:02] Alessandro Frosali: But there is the other option too, where men also rebel against it and they go, well, this is crap. And and then they start going down the route of blaming and say, well, women want us to step up, but the moment we step up, then they don't like our choices. You know, that kind of thing. And, and so I find that what I'm handling with and what I'm dealing with is, is both, narratives, but most people that come into my sphere, they often come into my sphere, sphere with quite a lot of they see themselves in my story and they go, Hmm, I I really, can you help me with some knowledge here because I don't know how, and I understand that.
[00:07:37] Iris Josephina: Yeah. And then I can also imagine that you are providing that safe space for them to actually. Talk and reflect on, on what is happening. And I'm curious how you create what that means, like a safe space for men. And I'm also curious how we as women can contribute to that. Because I feel, you know, we as women can say like, oh, my man is not stepping up.
[00:08:03] Iris Josephina: But then as a woman, to not also reflect on, okay, how can I provide a safe space for my man to actually do that? What's your thoughts on that?
[00:08:13] Alessandro Frosali: Hmm. The interesting thing is, where I learned safety was from my wife. So I think my wife was fed up. I would say that she was really fed up with like behaviors and things that I had. But one thing that one day she did for me was, like I, I, it was a fundamental moment for me where. Her and I were like, this was before our wedding.
[00:08:35] Alessandro Frosali: We'd done some pretty terrible things to get into a pretty terrible situation, and she'd packed her bags. She was about to leave. I was crying on the floor. And I remember it so clearly, in this bloody apartment in Hamburg. And I'm sitting there and I'm just like, crying, thinking that this might be the last time I see our dog.
[00:08:56] Alessandro Frosali: And, and she was just, she knew that there was something more on my chest, but I, and I just didn't wanna share it 'cause I didn't feel safe to. She was about to leave and we'd been shouting at each other for the whole day, and she was about to leave and she stopped and she went and she had this change in her, the shift where she went, that's not all, that's not all that's going on. you're gonna tell me everything that's going on. And she did this with a, a strength in her, which was not a force. She's, she's usually, I, I love to say that she's as subtle as a sledgehammer. So she's usually comes in and she'll get in there. That's my wife and I fucking love her for it. Sorry if I'm not allowed to swear. but she came in with this different energy of I want to hear it and I will hear it, I sat down, I sat with her, and I cannot describe how transformative that was for me because I just shared everything. It was as if I could, I describe it as, as if like, I imagined like there was this anchor deep inside me and it, it came up for the first time and all the things that I was really upset about.
[00:10:05] Alessandro Frosali: Came out and it was like, I think we screwed up with this decision to move to Germany. I think we screwed up with this. I think we, we lost connection here. I think that we did this and this and this and this, and it all came out and she gave me that space to share that and, and then we connected on that and she just said, I actually think the same things. And then from that point on, I, I knew within my heart I knew that if push came to shove, she could hear me. I'd never believed that of her before that. But because of that one moment she showed me that there was that capability, when it was really serious, she could actually hear me.
[00:10:43] Iris Josephina: Hmm.
[00:10:44] Alessandro Frosali: And that was a really important thing for me.
[00:10:46] Alessandro Frosali: And I think that's one of the cornerstones, to come all the way back to your question. It's one of the cornerstones for men is that they, they feel as if they cannot share. And often the first time. This is a very weird thing that I've, I've heard it in men's groups afterwards, that sometimes a man even leaves a wife
[00:11:08] Alessandro Frosali: if in his most vulnerable moment, the moment he's actually shared for the first time, she rejects him or pushes him away. And I get the understanding of that because she's fed up after all of this. But hearing that from men, I, I hear how men really struggle to become vulnerable and share. Because they don't believe that they can.
[00:11:30] Alessandro Frosali: And the moment that they believe they can, then they can go and seek things like men's groups and things like that. And then they can actually be able to share in that sort of space. But the unfortunate thing is if they, yeah, if they, they don't believe they can and then they get put in this weird position where they're not heard, sometimes it's just, that's when things get really awful.
[00:11:52] Alessandro Frosali: So in, in the advice to women is like I don't wanna say like, you have to always listen to your men, because sometimes it's really difficult, you know, and, and men can have such a shell around them that it's too much of a burden to say to women, you know, this is your job to actually bring that out. and so I never want to actually give that advice to women.
[00:12:14] Alessandro Frosali: I just know in my story that that was the thing that really showed me that someone was able to listen to me, and in actual fact, having the truth come out. Was a positive result rather than a negative result. And that's often why men hold that in, in the first place, is because when the truth came out, when they were kids, there were negative results.
[00:12:36] Alessandro Frosali: And so it's, it's better for them to just be quiet. And so I guess if one time in, in any relationship, if there can be a space where you go, you know what? You can say whatever truth is in your mind. If he knows that he can speak truth and something positive happens, then he will most likely go and seek to share more truth in other places.
[00:12:59] Alessandro Frosali: And you don't have to hold that as a woman all the time, but maybe once so he can actually see that it's possible.
[00:13:06] Iris Josephina: Yeah. Beautiful. I see a lot of like similarities. With, with my own relationship with my partner. And I think for us, we just made an agreement that we create a space for each other where we can share without judgment. and we remind each other. He actually reminds me of it, like, Hey, just wanna make sure that you know, everything can be shared here.
[00:13:29] Iris Josephina: I love you. I'm not leaving, and you can just be here and share. And I think we've developed that together and we're still like in the process of, of developing that and build, building that into our relationship. And it's, it's one of the most beautiful things and I think that's the most beautiful way to grow as a couple as well.
[00:13:50] Iris Josephina: Because when both parties can be truthful and vulnerable and you don't have the feeling that you have to like hide parts of yourself or your partner, this is where true growth. Happens and where the deepening of the connection happens. So I'm just so grateful that you do this work with men, because I feel many men don't get this opportunity in their relationship and sometimes they need to hear it from other men.
[00:14:13] Iris Josephina: Like, oh, okay, this is possible.
[00:14:17] Alessandro Frosali: Exactly, exactly. I mean, that's the biggest thing with men is that they feel so alone and it's, it's a shift for them. You know, I see it, I see it in mo both my work and I see it in the men's, in men's work and things like, this is the moment men realize that other men go through the same thing and that they can, they share and it won't be at the end of the world.
[00:14:40] Alessandro Frosali: It shifts something in them. And that might be the, I'm not gonna be loved or all of that sort of stuff, but it's a huge block. It's a huge block and it's often the first block that men need to get through in order to grow
[00:14:54] Iris Josephina: Yeah. And it sounds like a big part of it is also just community, like we're still communal beings, but we don't really live our lives that way.
[00:15:03] Alessandro Frosali: a hundred percent.
[00:15:03] Iris Josephina: Yeah. So in your work, you. Talk about what you call the Boy to man model. Can you share about what in, in your perception, makes a boy versus what makes a healthy integrated man?
[00:15:20] Alessandro Frosali: Mm-hmm. So this was one of the things which I was very grateful for in my own journey when I was like, you know, become more of a man, or I'm leaving, I was like, where the hell do I find out what a man is? And ironically enough, I was, running a social media company and one of my clients was, the rites of Passage Institute and the founder of that, Dr.
[00:15:42] Alessandro Frosali: Anna Rubenstein, wrote something called The Boy to Man Model. so I was actually editing these videos every single day, and then all of a sudden I'm looking at this and it's like, this is what a boy is, and this is what a man is. And I'm, I'm looking at this model and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm doing a lot of these boy things rather than these man things.
[00:16:01] Alessandro Frosali: So I'll read them out. He basically has, there's five categories and I've got it on the side here so I don't stuff it up. So a boy just wants power and to be the center of attention. So it's all, look at me, look at me, look at me. A boy avoids responsibility. So he is always gonna avoid responsibility. It was somebody else's fault.
[00:16:22] Alessandro Frosali: I mean, even a boy, you can even imagine a boy who's like playing cricket or baseball or something in the backyard, and then he hits a ball into a window. He's gonna blame, like even the glass. He's gonna blame the dog for jumping in front. He's gonna blame anything other than, yeah, actually I hit a, the ball into the window.
[00:16:39] Alessandro Frosali: You know, a boy is ruled by his emotions, so It's not bad to have emotions, but when you're a boy is completely ruled by them, throws tantrums like sulks or just cannot control, cannot sit with, cannot do anything with emotions. It's just like if emotions comes, he's on the rollercoaster of it.
[00:16:59] Alessandro Frosali: A boy can never be wrong
[00:17:01] Iris Josephina: Hmm.
[00:17:02] Alessandro Frosali: and a boy always wants a mother. So all of these are fine in a six to 10-year-old. if we imagine, you know, the men in our society that start wanting attention and power, they avoid responsibility. They ruled by their emotions can never be wrong, and they just want a mother.
[00:17:21] Alessandro Frosali: That's kind of a problem. It's kind of a problem. So if we can talk about the healthy man alternatives and the Integrated Men alternatives and this behavior, and I wanna make it really clear, and one thing that I'm learning is these are archetypes. These are not realities, like when we talk about masculine feminine, when we talk about boy versus man or healthy man or whatever, whatever the words we're gonna use, all of these are archetypes.
[00:17:45] Alessandro Frosali: And we use archetypes because they're, they're akin to stories and we know that we work well with stories. And so a healthy man. Archetype is something we walk towards rather than something that we have to be. And if we're not, we're all of a sudden a boy. You know, it's not like a, you, you, you didn't display, this behavior, so now you're a boy.
[00:18:07] Alessandro Frosali: it's more of a path or a journey to get to. So the archetype of a healthy man is being part of the universe and using power to serve the community. So it's not about like forgiving power and going and being a monk or wanting the power for themselves. It's seeking power, but for the community, then instead of avoiding responsibility, it's taking full responsibility for actions. Instead of being ruled by emotions, it's stand with emotions to be able to feel emotions that actually stand with them. I have this thing where I actually take it to a point where I, I feel like we as men need to learn how to be vulnerable. Control our emotions so that we can actually get to the point where we're being truthful, but we're also able to, to, to not be carried with the emotion, to see it for what it is and feel it when we need to feel it.
[00:19:02] Alessandro Frosali: then instead of can never be wrong, admits when wrong. And then finally just wants a mother seeks a healthy relationship with the feminine.
[00:19:11] Iris Josephina: Hmm.
[00:19:15] Alessandro Frosali: So that's the, that's the model from Dr. Ana.
[00:19:18] Iris Josephina: I love that, and I think what came up for me when you mentioned, rites of passage, my background is in anthropology and what I've learned throughout my entire anthropology, anthropology journey is that in our society, we, we don't really have that demarcation, that that journey from. Like child to adult and in my view, because so many of us missed that like Mark in our lives, we also don't know how to like integrate our our inner child and keep that within ourselves as an adult.
[00:19:57] Iris Josephina: Is that something that you do in your work to
[00:20:01] Alessandro Frosali: so exactly, exactly that. So then working with the, the Rites of Passage Institute, I noticed that. So they do this for, like, that whole company is there to bring 17 year olds and their fathers into the Australian bush, and they go through a five day rite of passage to help them from going from boy to, to, to man behavior.
[00:20:25] Alessandro Frosali: Now I love that. And I know that when I have kids one day, that's something I wanna do. But what I noticed was, you know, the way that Dr. Ana would always talk about how we ha he worried, he's worried that we are living in a society run by boys. I'm like, yeah, there's a lot of men that slipped through the cracks and our boys, because we've never had rites of passage.
[00:20:48] Alessandro Frosali: And so for me, I actually center my work around that to go. I wanna help the men that got left behind that didn't have a rite of passage, which is essentially almost every single man on this planet. But, that's why I run. So I run a better Husband retreat, which is essentially a masculine rite of passage, and that is.
[00:21:09] Alessandro Frosali: So that is one way that I do it. But all of these tactics and things like that, within the rite of passage, they seep into my coaching work as well because, these elements within a rite of passage are actually real elements. They're, they're really simple it's story, so sharing stories and wisdom from.
[00:21:27] Alessandro Frosali: Elder to lower. It's having some kind of challenge. It is honoring, for your unique gifts and talents. And finally, it is a vision for the future. And so each one of those can really be brought in. Yes, they can be. They're the best when you're in a community. And men, especially when you have a challenge with like 12 men and you actually build that incredible, but.
[00:21:52] Alessandro Frosali: If you do not have that, we do need to create these for ourselves. We have to create these for ourselves, and that's another part of what I do within the coaching.
[00:22:01] Iris Josephina: Beautiful. Oh my God. I wanna send al the men I know to your work. another part of, your work is what you call the life ship concept where you talk about, building a shared life together. Can you share a little bit more about that? Because it's something that I really value and I'm really at the point in my relationship where we are.
[00:22:24] Iris Josephina: You know, in this like pre-marriage state where we're like, okay, we're choosing each other, we're really gonna move forward together. and really talking about, okay, what does this shared life look like? What do we want from it? What do you want? What do I want? What are our shared goals? So I'm curious what your take on this is and how you bring that to your community.
[00:22:44] Alessandro Frosali: For sure, for sure. So I, I do believe the moment that, let's imagine we're talking about the, the masculine archetype of a man moving out into the world and he's just left his parents and now he's gonna go and tackle the world the moment we leave our parents and what would've been a rite of passage. But nowadays it's just a, a moment out.
[00:23:04] Alessandro Frosali: I imagine this moment as a ship, like, we we're out in an adventure on a boat and you, you're choosing a direction. Some people like a big fast ship, some people like a small whatever. But what's interesting is whenever we join into a relationship with somebody, it's not two separate ships. It is one ship.
[00:23:28] Alessandro Frosali: You join the ship together and a lot of people like live their lives as if they have very two very separate ships within their life. And there there's only one. There is only one. And and I also find this metaphor is quite good to explain mental load to men. So in actual fact, this was the reason why I came up with this metaphor was I tried to find a way to explain mental load to men.
[00:23:52] Alessandro Frosali: So this is what I tell men. Imagine you have the ship and you, you and your wife. It's your both, your responsibility to, to work out where you're going on the ship to, to have an adventure in the ship. But what men often are doing is they're downstairs and they're rowing. They're rowing all day. So rowing is really good for like forward momentum, energy of work, right?
[00:24:15] Alessandro Frosali: That's work that's, I'm making sure this ship is moving. And so men. A lot of situations 'cause there's a lot of women who are not stay at home mothers or who are often working as well and, and rowing as well anyway. But I'm just talking about the archetypal, what we see in our society a lot the most. So men often, they're downstairs, they're rowing.
[00:24:36] Alessandro Frosali: They're rowing, they're rowing. And then. They're so tired after rowing. They come up to the top of the deck and they just lie there and they go, oh, I'm done. And they look around and their wife is standing there with the kid in one arm. She's got the steering wheel. She's trying to hammer the, the side of the railings 'cause they're falling apart.
[00:24:53] Alessandro Frosali: There's a thunderstorm coming, the boat's now moving and it might even be going in the wrong direction. They've not even had a conversation about it. And she's like. can you help me with the railings? 'cause the kid's about to fall off and he's just like, I'm done. I rode the boat, didn't I? And she's just like, there's so much else. There's so much else that you have to do here. It's not just about rowing. Plus I was rowing earlier too. That's what she might say. But anyway, so I sort of look at it and go, okay, well man, if we wanna discuss what, what this is, is within your life ship, you have to be happy within the responsibilities.
[00:25:32] Alessandro Frosali: So it's not that. All men must do all tasks and all women must do all tasks. It is when you have a ship together, you get to come up to the top of the deck and you actually have a shared, like you both are responsible for this ship, and it's a wonderful thing to then look at it and go, in actual fact, in every relationship there is yourself, there is your partner, and there is your.
[00:25:56] Alessandro Frosali: Life ship there is the relationship and so you're not responsible for how the other person feels or what the other person does. You are responsible for your 50% of the life ship, and so you both have to be really happy with how you're running it. You both have to be happy within your roles and if you're not, if just one person is not, that merits a meeting or a conversation to work on the roles to make them better.
[00:26:19] Alessandro Frosali: Because that's the thing is this life ship is. Both of your responsibility and your, like it's almost a gift to you both to work on it and to find out where you wanna go. And too many men just row come back and they're tired, and they don't even know what direction they wanna go in. They don't even know if their wife is happy.
[00:26:41] Alessandro Frosali: They don't even, and they get so annoyed that they have to do anything else on the ship. And the moment you realize that. The moment men realize that they have agency within this life and they actually can, oh, I get to also choose part of where the ship is going. I also get to like make the ship into a beautiful place for me to live too.
[00:27:02] Alessandro Frosali: And the moment they realize that, they go, oh. Actually, that's pretty cool. It's not her just running the show. I gave that up to her because I was just scared of her reactions. So, you know, and, and that's the, the analogy with the life ship and Yeah. Yeah. And you know, there's, there's a lot more that you can sort of talk about.
[00:27:22] Alessandro Frosali: There's. 'cause as soon as you start having traumas and, and inner child wounds and things like that, that becomes like the baggage that sits at the back of the boat. But for the, you know, for, for what we have right now, I think this is a good, start of the analogy.
[00:27:37] Iris Josephina: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And I feel this is something that so many people struggle with, but maybe haven't like, put into that perspective. I feel that in my relationship and what I see around me. A lot of people had to like, come to that realization like, oh, we're in this together and we're doing, we're, we're having this beautiful, sacred relationship that we both have to fuel and we have to be conscious about how we're fueling it.
[00:28:03] Iris Josephina: Otherwise the whole thing goes haywire. So thank you for, for this analogy because I think it makes things very tangible for people. And from, from everything that we talked about, is there something that we missed or is there something that you really want people to get from our conversation or from the work that you do?
[00:28:27] Alessandro Frosali: Well, I think, I think when, when I'm talking to men and, I mean, and women, but specifically talking to men, what they don't understand. I think they're the first ones to jump into you versus me thinking the first ones to jump into this. And I think it, it, it links a little bit into the Boy to man model and to the, and to, and to the rites of passage sort of stuff.
[00:28:51] Alessandro Frosali: But there's essentially, if any man out there is listening or any wife of a man that's listening, understand that this you versus me thinking is coming because of some kind of reason why the boy or the man feels like he's been hard done by,
[00:29:09] Iris Josephina: Hmm.
[00:29:09] Alessandro Frosali: and I really, I really wanna work in this world to make sure that men understand that their wife is their, like actual biggest ally within this.
[00:29:20] Alessandro Frosali: And yes, she calls you out, but that calling out is, is something exceedingly beautiful. Like there's, there's nothing like a wife when it comes to intuition on problems. Intuition on problems. Now I have this analogy, which I, I use in my coaching, which I think any man can use. And I literally say to them, I go, okay, so let's imagine that you have a, a rug in the center of the floor, and this rug is, you know, a magic rug and it can grow to the size of the things that you put underneath it.
[00:30:04] Alessandro Frosali: I say, okay. Is there anything in your health that you, your wife has been telling you about but you haven't actually looked at? Right. If she's told you about it once, maybe it's the size of dust, if she's told you about it, like. Two to three times. Maybe it's the size of a pair of shoes, but if she's told you about it, like almost every month for 20 years, you know, we're talking about a couch or a fridge that goes underneath this rug.
[00:30:30] Alessandro Frosali: Okay? So I get them to imagine this and I say, okay, now we sweep that under the rug and we let the rug grow to cover that. And then we go to each other area, life admin, you know, is there like applying for a passport that you haven't done or dealing with your taxes or all of these kind of things. Go sweep it under the rug.
[00:30:45] Alessandro Frosali: Go sweep under the rug. What about wealth and, and money? Oh gosh. Sometimes, you know, there's, there's like skyscrapers that start going under the, underneath this massive rug and eventually, and also date nights and things like that. Relationship and connection. And then I say to them, all right, so that's all under the rug.
[00:31:05] Alessandro Frosali: Tell me, if your wife were to enter this room, can she get to the other side? Can she get to the other side? They're like. No. And I was like, well, interestingly enough, her more than anyone, she knows when you haven't done things and those things that you haven't done are often actually the things you really need done.
[00:31:26] Alessandro Frosali: Like I would talk to one guy and he would say, yeah, I actually started feeling a tremor and she told me that I needed to go see a doctor. And you know, we've got a young child and this young child, and I'm a little bit older. And I'm like, you, you don't, you do you realize why she's saying that? Because it makes her feel unsafe that she has, you have a young child together, you have a tremor, you don't know what it is, and you say it's just fine and I don't need to go to the doctor.
[00:31:53] Alessandro Frosali: That's not,
[00:31:54] Iris Josephina: Wow.
[00:31:55] Alessandro Frosali: that's not a, that's, that's something that she's, that's gonna make her feel unsafe. And then another man, he's like, well, ah, yeah, we have, I haven't dealt with taxes or the finances on sort of things. And I'm, again, you see that, that makes her feel unsafe and, and so often. I'll say, you've gotta pull these things out from under the rug, because what's gonna happen is your wife's gonna come in and she's gonna be angry at you.
[00:32:18] Alessandro Frosali: She might mislabel it, but of course she mislabel it 'cause you've got a fucking rug above it. Like you've, you're covering it by just sweeping these things under the rug and. These things are the things that hurt the relationship, and these are the things that are actually you are avoiding. And those are the things quite often or not, if you are ever gonna get to a stage of divorce, like those are the things that you've gotta sweep out first.
[00:32:47] Alessandro Frosali: Those are the things that are actually hurting you and hurting the relationship. And, and then the men get into you versus me of, ah, if only my wife just didn't. No, she's a, she's, She's a alert signal. She'll tell you when something's wrong because she's better at that than us. Like that's full stop.
[00:33:09] Alessandro Frosali: Alright, and one, one thing on that, women are quite literally, there's a doc Aon, in, in the states and he did a study on I think it was like 30,000 brains and there's a 14% better. women are 14% better at for thinking.
[00:33:23] Iris Josephina: Oh
[00:33:23] Alessandro Frosali: And forethought. And, and so if we just, and I'm like, I, I say to the men, I was like, well, they can see problems further than we can,
[00:33:33] Iris Josephina: I love it so much that you're saying this because I literally have had this conversation with my partner so many times. We lit, I literally use that word. He is gonna laugh and he is gonna listen to this.
[00:33:45] Alessandro Frosali: So women literally have better forethought. And so I honestly believe it's a superpower for men. To hear their woman's forethought and not necessarily take it at the words, take it at the emotion. If your wife starts going, Hmm, something's wrong. You haven't done this, you haven't done this. like there's that, that, that kind of energy with her.
[00:34:11] Alessandro Frosali: Imagine. That all that's happened is the check signal lamp has gone on. Or if you want the live ship analogy, maybe the alert signal on the boat has gone on and it is your job to decipher the issue. You can listen to it and she might say it's because you haven't done the bins, and you listen to it and you go, mm-hmm.
[00:34:28] Alessandro Frosali: It's not that. What else? What else? It's, it's because, tax is coming up next month and we haven't paid it. Oh yeah, that's actually pretty bad because if we don't pay that then we're not actually, we don't have enough money coming in for two months after that. Oh, okay. I actually think it's that. It's superpower the man gets to then, so I honestly think like that's the dynamic that works because of this forethought thing.
[00:34:54] Alessandro Frosali: And because like and then this is where also hormones come in because men have the, a better ability to regulate each day. And women, this is, this changes we're going through cycles. And so because men have the better ability to regulate through di the, the days, I believe, then the archetypes work here of masculine and feminine, where you literally go, okay, she's the one who finds the signals that things are wrong, and he's the one who decipher what it is.
[00:35:20] Alessandro Frosali: And then they can either both work on it or he can work on it, or whatever it is. That's where the team rolls come in and they get it sorted.
[00:35:26] Iris Josephina: I love that.
[00:35:27] Alessandro Frosali: But that's team thinking.
[00:35:29] Iris Josephina: Thank you for, for bringing that. And I think also what is important for men to understand in this, even if it comes out like in a shitty way, in our luteal phase, it comes from a place of care. We care about you and we care about you so much that we want every single part of your life to be good.
[00:35:48] Alessandro Frosali: Mm-hmm. Half of the work that I do is helping men see through her tone.
[00:35:58] Iris Josephina: I love that.
[00:35:59] Alessandro Frosali: See them through her toe, like it's because most of them have this idea that it's, but it's just too unnecessary emotions. The emotions are just too unnecessary. And I'm like, yeah, if you want her to be a man, then it is too unnecessary. But she's not a man and, and. It's not that, that's not the way through.
[00:36:21] Alessandro Frosali: And yeah, it's, that's one of the biggest things when, when women's emotions are, are not something that men have been taught to handle at the moment.
[00:36:33] Iris Josephina: No, but they can learn.
[00:36:35] Alessandro Frosali: They can learn and it is, it is possible. and there's some really cute things that you could do to try and if, if any man's listening here today, try this. This is something. I used to have, I used to have a, an aversion to anger. So my family dynamics when I grew up was that my parents never fought.
[00:36:55] Alessandro Frosali: They only ever, the only time they ever fought in their life. I remember it, they shouted at each other once and my brother and I were sitting on the stairs and sitting there like wondering what on earth was going on. I, I must have been like 10. next day they called us in and they said, we are, we are gonna get a divorce.
[00:37:16] Alessandro Frosali: So for me, like I equate anger, divorce, you know, that's how I grew up, you know, and my wife came from a opposite family. Very. They were, they were Polish and, they threw pots and pans at each other. And so, and so she came from like a, a more trauma sort of space where, where if she felt like she wasn't being heard.
[00:37:39] Alessandro Frosali: She needed to get angrier. And so when we started having issues in our relationship, you can probably already see the dynamic that starts to happen here. It's like I shut down because I'm like, this is not like anger is wrong here. And I, I would almost have described her anger to me as repulsive.
[00:37:57] Iris Josephina: Mm. Wow.
[00:37:58] Alessandro Frosali: she gets so angry.
[00:37:59] Alessandro Frosali: It's like it's repulsive. Like I, I don't find that attractive. I don't find, and I find that scary and I find I get, I don't like it. And the moment I had to realize this, that we were a team, I had to come through a way to actually make her anger be good in a way. And so it's gonna sound terrible. But I imagine my wife as like a Sesame Street character when she's angry.
[00:38:25] Alessandro Frosali: Like a, like a angry fuzzball. Like this really, like if you draw a cartoon, little fuzzball that's really angry. She's like that. And I would, and I see that and I'm like, when she's angry, that's her. And what it did was it made me soften to her. Because whenever she got angry, I just saw the angry Fuzzball and I was like, oh, the, oh, that's Julia, that's my wife.
[00:38:52] Alessandro Frosali: You know, it was cute and it made me smile. I don't need to imagine her as a softball anymore. I, I understand it, but we need to understand that, you know, our wife's not gonna hurt us. That's another thing that men really struggle with is they believe that they're, they believe that there's gonna be some kind of repercussion or something that, and they, they, they're so scared of their wives and then they start going to the me versus you thinking and, and if they just realize that the, the biggest thing that she wants, I mean, if any woman has ever sent one of my videos to their man, the biggest thing that she wants is connection and love and understanding Nothing else.
[00:39:33] Alessandro Frosali: And if those are the biggest wants, you can deal with her tone, you can deal with her tone and that tone we have to say. And, and if you've got women, listeners, I can imagine this is what they're probably saying right now. That tone has come from the fact that she has been trying to say this for years and she's actually quite pissed off.
[00:39:53] Alessandro Frosali: So it's not that that tone is not warranted, but that's another thing that men struggle with. So we gotta get through that.
[00:40:02] Iris Josephina: Yeah, and usually this tone is not something that comes like every day. Hopefully, I hope for other people, for us, it's like in my luteal phase right before my period, like it's gonna come out in all the ways.
[00:40:13] Alessandro Frosali: Mm-hmm.
[00:40:14] Iris Josephina: Yeah.
[00:40:15] Alessandro Frosali: But that's the other thing. We're talking about that tone though, and you've just hit on something really brilliant, is. is also where men, when they start understanding like and trusting their woman and, and they also start dealing with the things that are under their rug.
[00:40:31] Alessandro Frosali: I talk about how that is them knowing what is their proverbial shit pile versus somebody else's. And at this point you can start to realize, okay, is this my shit? Or, or their shit. And if it's your shit, like my biggest advice is if it's yours. Own it and deal with it if it's theirs. Pause. You do not need to take it personally.
[00:40:58] Iris Josephina: Yeah.
[00:40:58] Alessandro Frosali: Because I remember in my relationship the moment I paused, and there was one day that Julia was so angry and she got so angry and she just had this like volcano explosion. And I used to be able to, I, well, I used to in the relationship, try and fix her, try and slow it down, try and pause it. And then that volcano was not directed at the ants in the kitchen.
[00:41:19] Alessandro Frosali: It was now directed at me because I'm trying to slow it down and, and oh gosh, that was the worst, but. If men instead realize, okay, is this my shit or her shit? It's my shit. No, it's not my shit. It's her shit. Stop. And don't take it on. Don't take it on. Allow it to go through it. And then I did that and for the first time ever when?
[00:41:43] Alessandro Frosali: When this was a couple of years ago, whatever it was, and the next day Julia did something she had never done before, which was, wow, that was really outta line. I'm sorry.
[00:41:52] Iris Josephina: Hmm.
[00:41:53] Alessandro Frosali: then you allow somebody to self-regulate and deal with their own shit. The moment you find that repulsive, the moment you like get in the way of them dealing with their own thing, then it becomes about you and how you, your dynamics.
[00:42:08] Alessandro Frosali: And so that's also not loving your partner for who they are and loving your partner for who they are is literally just the core of it. You're on a team and if one of your teammates is going crazy, allow them to do that. And they'll work out their own thing while you just not take it personally. And the more you do that, the more you get on the right team and you understand that everything's okay.
[00:42:32] Alessandro Frosali: They're just dealing with their own traumas
[00:42:34] Iris Josephina: Yeah, and I feel, you know, this also goes both ways. Like if my partner is having his things and he needs to step out, which I feel is something that is very hard for women because we want to like regulate the emotions immediately and it's not something that men do like acutely. Sometimes they need to like step out, take a break, pause process.
[00:42:57] Iris Josephina: I feel women really process on the spot and always have something to say. This is something in our dynamic that I'm like really learning about that sometimes a man needs to like step out and I need to provide him or allow him his space and then for him to
[00:43:11] Alessandro Frosali: We are exactly the opposite, my wife and
[00:43:14] Iris Josephina: Uhhuh.
[00:43:15] Alessandro Frosali: So I'm the one who always wants to, and she, she needs to step out. But in a relationship that often happens, there's one and one.
[00:43:22] Iris Josephina: Yeah.
[00:43:22] Alessandro Frosali: but again, when you have a life ship, have a conversation about how are we going to handle conflict.
[00:43:30] Iris Josephina: Mm-hmm. This is very
[00:43:32] Alessandro Frosali: are going to be a natural thing on this boat because someone's gonna have one responsibility.
[00:43:37] Alessandro Frosali: There's gonna be another thing, or there's gonna be this and this. What are our fight dynamics? All right, so
[00:43:42] Iris Josephina: Yeah.
[00:43:44] Alessandro Frosali: be as a man, and this is the thing, like if you wanna have a better relationship, be proactive rather than reactive. There's like, there's no point trying to fix a marriage when you're at the, like at the settlement for the divorce.
[00:44:00] Alessandro Frosali: Fix it beforehand. Fix it with conflict. Understand. Okay. So when we have conflict, the first thing I get, like men that I work with to do is I tell them, if you need time to regulate your emotions, go and tell them that we are Australian men's coach. That, I'm seeing has told me that. I can say to you, within my fights, if you are okay with this, that if I need five minutes, I'm gonna go to the other room, regulate my emotions, so I don't speak from like being pulled by my emotions and I can actually speak clearly and then I will come back and have that conversation.
[00:44:36] Alessandro Frosali: Is that something that. Is good for our relationship and are you happy with that as I am happy with that? And then you can have that conversation, right? And then that conversation helps you move forward and have a better relationship because you've had these proactive conversations about your fight styles.
[00:44:55] Iris Josephina: Yeah, I love that your fight styles.
[00:44:58] Alessandro Frosali: Exactly.
[00:45:01] Iris Josephina: It's important to talk about.
[00:45:02] Alessandro Frosali: with your relationship.
[00:45:04] Iris Josephina: Yeah. It's very important and I feel that when we are like illiterate in that way, like that's where all the problems start arising because you haven't spoken about how you're gonna like move this relationship forward. Like I feel a lot of people don't even talk about that.
[00:45:21] Iris Josephina: They just live the relationship and.
[00:45:24] Alessandro Frosali: Exactly. And, and look, they, they get, so the thing is we don't, we don't wanna talk about it because it's messy and. But it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be, but 'cause we're brushing over these things and then you're just taking things at face value. So for example, you know when you are, we've all probably experienced fights where they've just gone a little bit too far and when they go too far, things start coming out.
[00:45:48] Alessandro Frosali: You're a bitch, you are crazy, you are an narcissist, you are gaslighting me, you are an asshole. I don't respect you. These things. Start coming out at the point, like once you've already gone too far,
[00:46:03] Iris Josephina: Hmm.
[00:46:04] Alessandro Frosali: you're ready at that point. And those are the things that seem to stick with us, but we can avoid them if we're proactive about it and say, Hey, where's a boundary line?
[00:46:14] Alessandro Frosali: Is this boundary? Like what's our boundary line? And on that point. Like we just enforce where one of us is gonna leave. And it's okay if one of us does, and you might notice it's a dangerous place because let's say the man is enforcing this and saying, look, there's gonna be a timeout moment here. 'cause you also don't want a man who just shuts down emotionally and then use that as an escape.
[00:46:35] Alessandro Frosali: But this is where, yeah, you're on a team, you have to, everyone has to work this out themselves. But essentially. It is a dangerous point because you can say, okay, I'm gonna go regulate my emotions and while you are leaving, the wife goes, well, today's go, you've ruined my day. And then the man hears that and then turns around and starts again and can't stop.
[00:46:58] Alessandro Frosali: But we have to just like always remember you're on a team and if somebody's not presenting the best that they can, don't bring the whole boat down just because. One person's not at their best. Like you can, you can step up there and then at other times she will step up when you're not at your best. And that's the, that's the point of it.
[00:47:20] Alessandro Frosali: It's teamwork and it's, it's shortening the gap. The whole thing is shortening the gap between fight and reconciliation, because I don't believe that fights never happen, but I do believe we can almost get reconciliation to a point where it's under a minute.
[00:47:37] Iris Josephina: Mm-hmm.
[00:47:40] Alessandro Frosali: Because there's always gonna be something that hits.
[00:47:43] Alessandro Frosali: But how short can you make the reconciliation? How short can you make the, I'm letting that go because it doesn't serve us.
[00:47:50] Iris Josephina: I love that. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And I hope that the people who are listening take something from this, like, go, go try this out in your relationship if you have one. Try this at home.
[00:48:07] Alessandro Frosali: Go try this at home.
[00:48:09] Iris Josephina: And, where, where can people find you if they are listening to you and they're like, oh, I want to like send my partner to this.
[00:48:16] Iris Josephina: I wanna try this, I wanna go on a retreat, wanna get coaching? What's the best place where people can find you in your work?
[00:48:23] Alessandro Frosali: www.alessandrofrosali.com That's, that's my website, but also on Instagram as well, @alessandro_frosali. I'm, I'm there as well, but essentially anywhere online where you find me, I'm there.
[00:48:38] Iris Josephina: Perfect. I will paste all of this into show notes so everyone can find it. Thank you so much for your time, for your wisdomfor listening to this as your life's purpose because I feel a lot of people are very supported by your work and everyone who is listening, go check out his Instagram. He shares a lot of like cool little videos that you can learn a lot from.
[00:49:02] Iris Josephina: And yeah. Thank you so much.
[00:49:05] Alessandro Frosali: Thank you for having me.
[00:49:07] Iris Josephina: You're so welcome.
[00:49:08] Speaker 2: Okay, this wraps up today's episode. Thank you so much for listening. Want to know more about me? The best way to reach me is via @cycleseeds on Instagram, and if you heard something today and you think, oh my God, wow, I learned something new. Feel free to share the podcast on your social media and tag me or leave a review of rating.
[00:49:30] Speaker 2: In this way, you help me reach more people like you. Thank you so much.
About the Host
I’m Iris Josephina:functional hormone specialist, orthomolecular hormone coach, and entrepreneur. Through Cycle Seeds and The Inner Rhythms Podcast, I support people in reconnecting with their cyclical nature, deepening body literacy, and reclaiming hormonal harmony from a place of sovereignty and embodied knowledge. Most people know me from Instagram, where I share stories, tools, and inspiration on cyclical living, menstrual cycles, fertility, hormones and more.
Let’s stay connected:
💻 Visit the Cycle Seeds website
